June 28, 2006

Some thoughts inspired by Divided By God

We have a problem in America today. That problem is that we can't decide what should be the rational basis for the laws we make. You may be confused now. After all, this is supposed to be related to the church-state issue raised in Divided By God. Well, it is, so bear with me.

One of the points that Feldman raised in that book is that historically, before we were as multicultural a nation as we are now, laws were passed without real regard for what came to be known as "minority rights". As a matter of fact, the very idea of minorities is a relatively recent invention. Whoever was the majority won defacto because nobody else was considered. For example, the laws regarding funding of Catholic schools.

Now before you say that's an obvious case of a breach of the church-state relationship, keep in mind that until fairly recently, in public schools it was normal for teachers to lead children in prayer. Also, reading from the bible was a daily event. When this kind of discrimination was brought to court, it was basically upheld by saying that the public schools (paid for by taxes levied on both Catholics and Protestants) weren't inculcating a particular religion. They were inculcating basic American values that were supposed to be common among all religions. So, by any definition, the state was funding religious education. This was something that the Founders almost surely would not have supported, that being the entire purpose of the establishment clause ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"). Establishment, in that case, is not synonymous with a building, as it is in modern usage (ex. "I find this to be a fine establishment for dining on a small budget.") It means that the government shall make no law that creates a church. That did, in their day, apply to the taxation of people to support churches and religions they did not believe in, something which was a common practice in the states until after the 14th amendment which gave all citizens the rights and protections of the Constitution.

So obviously, on the one hand you have the government in this case supporting the establishment of religion in "public" schools but denying that same support to Catholic schools (which of course were open to anyone who wished to pay). But at the time, that was believed, by the majority of people, to make perfect sense. Nonsectarian Protestantism was the "American way". Of course in later years other people began to take public schools to court for religious teachings (we actually have the Jehovah's Witnesses to thank for much of that). In the progressive 60's and 70's, it was finally seen as a violation of other people's rights to have to support (pay taxes for) a religion they didn't believe in.

But that doesn't change the essential balance of the laws we've written. Some are based more on the shared values of our nation, some on protecting the rights of the individual. To many, this is synonymous with the assault on the doctrine of the separation of church and state that religionists of many stripes have been waging ever since the liberal high-tide passed.

Here's a thought: unless you can win and assure that your laws will always remain the laws, by opening the door to such tyranny of the majority, you are setting yourself up to be the oppressed minority. This is because it's not possible for America not to change. It's not possible for white protestants to be the majority forever, nor anybody else for that matter. Someday the influx of immigrants from south of us will stop. Heck, 200 years in the future we may be sending people down there; who knows?

Among others, that's a reason I don't believe the idea that we can force people to live a certain way should be adopted into our laws. Now this is not to say that there is no place for values in our laws. Nor is it to say that we should basically live in anarchy and let people run around doing whatever they please. I certainly believe in a large, effective government (and in paying taxes for that government). But I think that it shouldn't reach into our personal lives.

I guess to some people, at issue is a supposed dichotomy between bringing up people to have an essential American national identity and respecting individual rights. But I don't agree that there is a dichotomy. As a matter of fact, I think we'd be teaching our kids to be good Americans simply by teaching them that they have essential, basic rights and by respecting those rights. Of course we should also have a better public education system, because how can they truly love this country if they don't know it? But anyway, I say let the Baptists be Baptists, let the Catholics be Catholics, and don't let either of them write laws based on their understandings of religion. And this has nothing to do with whether I think their interpretations are correct or not. I think the only rational course is to protect the freedom of the individual at the highest level.

It's almost certainly not what the Framers intended in setting out the Constitution. While they believed the government existed to serve the people, they also believed that at times state coercion of the people was necessary. Despite what some morons want you to believe now, most of the Framers certainly did not believe that the individual should not be taxed. If you recall, the refrain was "No taxation without representation." Not just "No taxation." And, as I noted above, the Bill of Rights (and Constitution in general) did not apply to individual citizens. They placed limitations of power on the Federal government, not State governments. The State of Virginia certainly could restrict free speech, fund churches, and take away your guns. But that just goes to show that over the years, the American citizen has demanded more and more freedom, as we have seen that the desire for freedom is paramount in all peoples. We have, in general, come to believe that individual freedom is the most basic necessity of the democracy we live in. And, over the years, because of that belief we have seen Congress and the courts expand our freedoms again and again.

This brings me to my point: the one thing we Americans believe in above all else is freedom. Nothing makes us more American than that. The freedom to believe what we want, say what we want, read what we want, shoot guns if we want and everything that follows. That is our American value. And that is why freedom should be the prime rationale for every law we make and every action the government takes. Everything can be expressed in terms of conflicting freedoms. Take, for example, murder. Surely the freedom of life is your most basic one; so fundamental that it doesn't need to be stated anywhere. Murder is the absolute negation of all your rights. Therefore, no one has the right to murder anyone, as it represents the supreme abrogation of another's rights. Also consider traffic regulation. You can't speed, you can't run red lights, and you can't cross three lanes of traffic because you're endangering others and threatening to injure or kill them. You have no right to do that. It's not about government having rights. The government doesn't have rights to regulate you; regulating citizens is a job the government has as a proxy of everyone. Not everyone can be a policeman or fireman. You can't stand there 24 hours a day 365 days a year enforcing speed limits. That's why there's a government; they do it for us.

As far as separation of church and state, I absolutely have the right not to fund religions. In that rationale, I might say that any individual has the right not to fund anything they don't agree with. But religion, in my view, is not a function of the state, whereas police, firemen, libraries, and soldiers are. This is because regardless of my beliefs, if I'm being robbed a cop will help me out. If my house is on fire, the firemen will come. And whatever my religion, I can get a book at the library. I guess churches can do that sort of thing too, by making religion a non-element in the services they give, but then, why would they?

Christians sometimes make the argument that funding public schools forces their kids to learn teachings that are not in keeping with their religion, and therefore violates their right to worship as they please. They are "violated" by such teachings as evolution, sex education, and the idea that gay people are normal. Well, I can understand that. If your religion actually says that science isn't, well, true, then teaching kids scientific fact can violate your religion. And for that I would almost say that people should be able to take their kids out of public school and have their tax money applied to private schools.

But then again, the greatest common bond most Americans will probably ever share will be their public schools. A lot of times, they're flawed. But contrary to movies (that damn liberal Hollywood), my multicultural public institutions were great places to interact with people of all races, colors, and cultures. And we did. I had white friends, black friends, Hispanic friends and Asian friends. Teaching kids to be part of the democracy is one of the prime functions of public education, and that, in terms of what's valuable to the state, is more important than assuring that kids receive religious education on the state's time. For it is the state's time, that time of childhood to forge Americans, not Catholics or Baptists or Lutherans or Mormons. Let the religions be concerned with that. That's what you have Saturday and Sunday for and weeknight services (what, you didn't know that some churches do?). If the state has the responsibility to teach us anything, it is the value and responsibility of being an American and being part of the democratic process. And despite my wishes to be inclusive, I say to you that if you don't wish to be part of the democratic process, you may go somewhere where you will not be.

Now I've actually been working on this a few days and I wish to wrap it up, so let me start to end, and if it ends too quickly, sorry. And if this has been too long, sorry. But screw you, it's my blog.

What I want to suggest is this: that we regard every individual, and every group of individuals as having a "sphere" of rights. Now these rights don't need to be defined; we shall assume that in every case of doubt, everyone has every right. If I haven't mentioned it before, let me mention it now: Madison, among others, argued against the Bill of Rights being adopted because he didn't want it thought that the only rights that existed were those enumerated in the document. He thought, as all the Framers did, that the rights of people were unlimited. The reason a Bill of Rights was included goes beyond the scope of my writing, but suffice it to say that a number of folks still wanted their rights specifically protected. So let's say you have this sphere of unlimited rights. Well, everyone does. Right away you can see what the problem is. People's sphere's are going to run into each other. At issue is what happens when these spheres interact. Well, both spheres should be preserved to equal measure. In the example I used before, you can't murder someone because that completely negates their freedom. But if the issues is that you want to shoot things, well, you should have the right to shoot things, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's personal sphere.

Now I really don't have the time or inclination to elucidate much further, but I'm assuming that you can reasonably see where this is going. The government would only have laws regarding where people's spheres of freedom overlap or intersect, and those laws would exist to maintain an equal balance of freedom between the parties. This would result in much the same country as we have today. Speed limits would still be there, for the aforementioned reasons. Laws against drugs might have to change unless we have some reason to believe that self-annihilation harms others (which it does by the way, if only because public tax money has to be spent on picking you up when you're dead). And of course there's the question of whether you can voluntarily abdicate your rights. And of course, if you could, then what would constitute such abdication? My system, as you see, is not necessarily simpler than our present system. But I do think it's fairer.

For issues that occur between individuals, most of us are already of the opinion that it's none of our business. Except of course, when what they do offends you. We used to have laws banning inter-racial marriage. That was struck down, eventually, but the idea that you can regulate person to person relationships hasn't been. Gay marriage, again. I don't see why the state has any business regulating the personal matters of any two people save to assure that neither of them is infringing on the other's rights. I mean, if I wanted to give someone the legal rights to me that they would have in marriage without marrying them, why shouldn't I have that power? And what difference does it make whether sex is involved or not? How about polygamy? In what way does it involve the state? Why does the state have any compelling interest in multiple marriages? As approached from the viewpoint of individual rights, I think it's absurd.

You know, I'm a married man. One man, one woman. Just like God intended, as some would say. And I'm not interested in quitting, or getting more wives (or an additional husband!). I don't want to use drugs; I barely drink caffeine and never alcohol. But if other people do these things, I don't see it as an infringement of my rights and freedoms. And if it's not infringing my rights and freedoms, why should I have any right to limit them?

4 comments:

Seamus said...

Surprisingly, I do agree with you on at least one point: people should be able to send their tax dollars to the school of their choice. People should be free to support whatever value system they want and plenty of Americans have a problem with the public school value system in one way or another.

However, your utilitarianism, although seemingly attractive through its apparent emancipation, is disturbing.

If the right is nothing but what brings about the good, the good is nothing but the desirable, the desirable is nothing but what we actually desire, and what we actually desire is relative then none of your ideals like freedom or happiness actually matter. Person A's relative desires to limit your rights are just as valid as your desire not to be limited. How can you decide who is right without appealing to a higher order, or objective value system?

You mentioned that murder is objectively wrong? Why? What objective value system makes it so? If not God, maybe Darwinian success of the species? If so, then tell me exactly how murder overall affects the species and hurts its survival. Shouldn't we murder the less fit and give their resources to the superior individuals?

You can't appeal to both "natural law" and naturalism. They cancel each other out completely.

I support freedom just like you do; however, I appeal to a higher order of right and wrong. Unless you can quite exactly describe how naturalism can objectively lead to a universal system of right and wrong and exactly what that universal system entails for every individual (which is basically impossible) then your own ideas of freedom and "right" are absurdly irrelevant to the rest of the world whose values are just as "right" as yours. Tell us exactly how your relative view of freedom and rights is universally applicable and binding to all humankind.

Thus naturalism has no care for minorities whatsoever, on what truth system do you base your desire to promote or protect them?

When you base your truth on utilitarian relativism, you no longer have any truth at all.

You may appeal to a higher order or objective system of morality. If so, tell us what it is. From reading your post it seems like you don't. If you do appeal to objective morality, then why should we listen to you since you claim that to enforce such a system is oppressive? If you don't appeal to objective morality, then why should we listen to you since our values and desires are relatively more important that yours?

Either way you make yourself irrelevant. Now don't worry, I won't "harrass" you by commenting on this post again. I won't subject you to my "scorn" by offering my opinion on a blog where you ask for opinions. In fact, even if you directly insult me, I'll leave it alone. I've made my single point, and I will once again let the "third party readers" decide for themselves what to believe. (I apologize to those third party readers for the inside references to past discussions).

Mildred said...

Well, Seamus, your comment probably could have been summed up in two or three sentences. Ten paragraphs seemed a little long for what you had to say. What's with all this ranting on a book blog? Your argument sounded more personal than intellectual.

Nat-Wu said...

Actually, I don't think you read what I was saying. I don't support state funding of private schools. I said I can see the rationale of the argument, but in that case not only is it an unworkable system but thoroughly anti-democratic.

"Person A's relative desires to limit your rights are just as valid as your desire not to be limited. How can you decide who is right without appealing to a higher order, or objective value system?"

This was the whole point of my argument. I say that no one has the right to limit someone else's freedom; both should extend equally far. It is not a question of right/wrong, which is necessarily a moral issue. See next paragraph. Equal rights under the law is going to be a subjective call from time to time, but on objective issues, you can't say that limiting someone else's freedom when their practice of that freedom doesn't impact yours is using the principle of equal freedom.

"You mentioned that murder is objectively wrong?" No, you did in order to create this red herring argument. Although personally I find the idea of murder repugnant, I cannot come to the conclusion that it is wrong because some objective system of morals says so, when I do not believe any objective system of morals exists. What I actually said is: "Surely the freedom of life is your most basic one; so fundamental that it doesn't need to be stated anywhere. Murder is the absolute negation of all your rights. Therefore, no one has the right to murder anyone, as it represents the supreme abrogation of another's rights." Of course, I'm talking about a system whereby we identify freedom objectively, as in, being physically free to move. I say you are alive, therefore you have the freedom to live, therefore someone taking that freedom away is objectively them absolutely taking away your objective freedom to move and talk and everything. The simple freedom to actually move is not subjective; that's all I mean.

Therefore most of your following comments are irrelevant. Although you insist on qualifying other people's thoughts as dogmatic beliefs in one system of order or another, it is not necessarily so. I'm not talking about any moral values system, so "natural law" is irrelevant to the argument.

"I support freedom just like you do; however, I appeal to a higher order of right and wrong. Unless you can quite exactly describe how naturalism can objectively lead to a universal system of right and wrong"

There's your misconception. I'm not talking about right and wrong. You are, and that's a different thing.

"If you do appeal to objective morality, then why should we listen to you since you claim that to enforce such a system is oppressive? If you don't appeal to objective morality, then why should we listen to you since our values and desires are relatively more important that yours?"

You're right, I don't appeal to an objective morality. But your second argument is impossibly weak. Are you honestly saying that if your own values are more important relative to you than mine are important to me that gives you some right to enforce them on me? Do you honestly not see the logical fallacy to that? Because I'm sure you don't approve of a bunch of Arabs coming over here and tearing your body apart because their beliefs are at least as important to them as yours are to you.

Or are you saying that because you believe something to be true, it has to be true and therefore trumps any beliefs I might have? That's circular reasoning. Your "truth" is true because you believe it to be true. Try standing on one leg and then pulling the other one up to sit cross-legged in the air. It won't work either.

"Either way you make yourself irrelevant." Well, maybe if I'd actually said the things you thought I did, or even held the beliefs you espouse for me.

The good thing about my world is that there's no police to come busting down your door because you don't espouse the correct beliefs and offend my religious sensibilities (as gay marriage offends yours).

Alexander Wolfe said...

Seamus, I think you make the same fundamental error that Christians make when arguing issues of morality, freedom, and right and wrong. You assume that since you believe that there is some sort of order to your belief system, premised on a "higher truth", then for any other system to be valid it must also be based on some fully objective and realizable truth. That's simply not the case; most liberal belief systems of morality do not require any "higher truth" because we believe there is no such thing. To require it, is to forego the moral decision-making process that we must undergo in deciding what is right and wrong. That however does not mean that there can be no over-arching philosophy of morality. Hence, Nathan's approach here, and approach that I think many liberals have articulated elsewhere and that many other liberals agree with. That there is no "higher truth" is simply irrelevant.